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General discussions : Discussion about Alchemistry
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April 22, 2013, 4:16 am
Posts: 346
Hi,

I am currently working on the new version of B&D and I would like your opinion about something:

One of the new feature of the new coming version of B&D is the introduction of the Alchemistry. With the Alchemistry, you will be able to “compose” potions with various effects such as reflecting arrow, underwater breathing, making your dog to become huge, and invisibility.

At first, the alchemistry table was inspired from the workshop table: You could select of potion to make in a list of potions, and if the ingredients were available, you or the workers could make the potion.

However, I found it a bit flat, and I wanted a challenge during the potion making. After some thinking, I thought that a logical puzzle were all the player could participate might be cool. The idea is for the recipes of the potions to be different for each game. For example, on one game, make the healing potion might require some ash and some wheat in a game while it might require some water and some mushroom (introduced in the new version) in another game: The players will have to think in order to find the recipes for the potions he wants to make.

Right now, I would like to expose you my thoughts on this puzzle, and I would love to have your opinions and comments (positive or negative).

My first idea was to make a puzzle close to the Mastermind game (that I love). The goal of the game is to find an ordered sequence of color. After each try of guessing the colors, the player receive some (incomplete) information that helps him to figure the good sequence. However, in the case of the Alchemistry of B&D, since there are several possible potions to make (therefore different possible recipes of the same time), the Mastermind way of giving some information to the player does not work (since there are several good solutions are the same time). I thought about some possible extensions to deal with this “multi solution” problem, but I have not be able to find something that I am happy with.

Therefore, I thought about something else. The current solution that I am considering so far is the following:
With the alchemistry table, the player can mix together any ingredient he/she wants (the order of ingredient is important). Most compositions with produce useless or event dangerous potions. However, is the good ingredients are put in the right order, the player will be able to produce useful potions.
Since there are too much possible combinations, it does not make sense for the player to try them all. Therefore, the player will have two types of help:

First, every time a new ingredient is added into the Alembic, a cloud of smoke will be emitted. Depending on the color of the smoke, the player will know if he/she is on the good path to make a good potion. This type of information will make easy for the player to find the recipes of the simple potions which only require two or three ingredients.

However, this kind of information will not be enough to make complex potions (there will be too much possibilities). Therefore, the player will need to use a second type of help: In the dungeon, if he is careful, he will be able to find a book of recipes with almost all the recipes of the potions (some other recipes will be found by other ways). In this book, each recipe will be represented by a sequence of symbol, and each symbol will represent an ingredient. However, the player will not know which ingredient matches to which symbol, and he will have to figure that out by make the connection with the recipe of the potions he already made.

And that is it :)

This is the current way I am thinking for the alchemistry to work. If you have any comments, suggestions or question (my description might not be very easy to understand). I will be happy to hear it.

I really want the alchemistry to be interesting and fun to do, and I am sure your comments will be very helpful.

Cheers,
Achoum
April 22, 2013, 9:03 am
Posts: 29
" if he is careful, he will be able to find a book of recipes with almost all the recipes of the potions (some other recipes will be found by other ways)."

-Maybe instead of a book, there could be a single page (good for one potion) and it would be in the form of a clue.


"Therefore, I thought about something else. The current solution that I am considering so far is the following:
With the alchemistry table, the player can mix together any ingredient he/she wants (the order of ingredient is important). Most compositions with produce useless or event dangerous potions. However, is the good ingredients are put in the right order, the player will be able to produce useful potions.
Since there are too much possible combinations, it does not make sense for the player to try them all. Therefore, the player will have two types of help:"

-The smoke idea is good, but are the dangerous potions fatal?

"The idea is for the recipes of the potions to be different for each game."
This will keep the player guessing each game, which is good because it prevents the player from learning the recipe in one game and using it on another.

One question relating to multi-player if possible. Is saving implemented for LAN multi-player?
April 26, 2013, 6:34 am
Posts: 10
maybe even have basic positions you make and combine those to make more complex ones and such that way it doesn't require a large variety of materials but a large quantity of materials to mix n match the different potions together to make the one you want however once a formula is found next game you will know what makes what resulting in a non complex system yet a system that allows you to get stronger potions later in the game when they are needed not to get them early and survive easily through the first few nights.
April 27, 2013, 9:05 am
Posts: 29
Hmm... Arsinic, your idea reminds me of the potion creation from Might & Magic VI/VII. (That is a great idea!)

If B&D potion creation was just like M&M VII (but with a henchman and a alchemy bench) that would be perfect!

There should be success percentage points, higher henchman level = greater chance of success.

Failure could create results like:

Explosion = henchman damage

Gas = henchman falls unconscious for short period of time.

puff of smoke = an enemy zombie of slime could suddenly appear.

spark = nearby lanterns/cannons/equip short circuit.

Water = room floods




April 29, 2013, 2:02 am
Posts: 346
Hi,

Thanks for the ideas.

Dangerous potions are not fatal. They are causing bad effects like: poison during 5s, in fire during 5s, very slow during 10s, zombie popping out of nowhere, etc.

Saving is not (yet) implemented in multi-player. Is it something that you would find very interesting?

I never played Might & Magic VI/VII, but the idea seems interesting (composing complex potions with basic potions).
I am a bit against the random bad stuff effects. In the early stage of the game, you had a small random chance to be hit by meteorites. Because of that, your fortress had to be "spread". But apparently, players really did not like that.

The players do not have any "level". But the workers have. Right now both players and workers can make potions. But with the system "level --> chance of success", only the workers will be able to craft advances potions.

In the first place (I should have ask first), do you like the all idea of having some kind of puzzle?
April 29, 2013, 8:10 am
Posts: 29
"Saving is not (yet) implemented in multi-player. Is it something that you would find very interesting?"

-Are you asking if I found an error? I had asked because my brother and I like to play over LAN and wanted to see if the save feature was implemented.

"In the first place (I should have ask first), do you like the all idea of having some kind of puzzle?"

-How would the puzzle system respond to a worker using the bench?

The puzzle idea should be ok, as long as there is a quick way to exit the puzzle if under attack.
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